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Post by gpickle on Nov 11, 2005 22:54:31 GMT -5
Hi all! I was a bit disappointed in myself the other night when, as I was extolling some super cool euro bikes, I slammed the mighty manufacturer that could, Trek USA. I felt bad because I did not want to hurt anyones feelings and I felt I may have. So to clear the air and make myself feel well enough to sleep through the night I thought I would do a bit of research and then make a more coherent post/point on the TrekSucks issue. First let me assure you that I know Trek. My first "real" bike was a Trek 1200 and I rode it hard and soft until it was stolen. I currently own a LeMond (Owned by Trek) Poprad. I have sold Trek at the shop I used to work at for the last 3 years. I have met the president of the company and once, years ago, I drove by the Trek store in Madison, so I know Trek! How can this be, you ask, that a loyal Trek knower like myself should come to not only realize but also exclaim TrekSucks!? Well let me tell ya.... There was a time when Trek did not suck. I will leave it to smart guys like Patrick O'Grady at Mad Dog Media and Big Johnnie at Drunkcyclist to nail down exactly when Trek first began sucking, but I think it was in 1995. '95 was the year Trek negotiated with VW to cross market a car and a bike, which they did in 1996. 1995 also marked the purchase of Klein Bicycles. Gary Fisher was already in "the family" and about this time Keith Bontrager's company was snatched up, too. Check out their time line on their website: www.trekbikes.com/inside_trek/about_trek/timeline/ Look at that, everything was cool, they were still making some steel bikes and making them in the USofA. Not hurting anyone, just another bike company. Then, they go on a buying spree, cross market with a car company and BLAMMO! In 1997 they roll out the Y frames. I rest my case on the beginning of the suck saga. 1995 it was and they've been suckin' ever since. Trek has become a giant that churns out slick and well marketed bikes year after year. I have seen people's eyes glaze over as they look through the Trek catalog and see all the carbon frames and suspension forks. The WSD line is great because ALL women are the same, right? Mountain bikes NEED suspension, right? Comfort bikes do, too, apparently, even though the upright seating position takes almost all of the pressure off your hands and puts it on your butt, which gets a giant saddle to sit on and suspension, too! But gosh that fork looks great and I bet it won't have to be replaced until it breaks. Sure you can have a comfort bike without a suspension fork, but the components will, unfortunatly, suck. You’re interested in road biking? Sorry but if you want a double (trust me, you don’t need a triple) you will have to shell out over $3,000. Or you can buy a 1200 like I did ($900) but you will have to upgrade the crank, bottom bracket, front derailleur and shifter, too so why don’t you just be a good sport and get a Madone. Check out the Soho, a good looking $1,200 townie. Come to the ICBL and I'll put you on one for $50 that actually has fenders. Check out the Portland. I can't even begin to list all the lame and ridiculous features this bike offers, I think its name is the lamest of them all. The SU200 is nicely priced, but sucks. Disc brakes on a bike under $500 that is supposed to be a townie? Fenders please, and how about a rack or a decent derailleur? At least it doesn't have a suspension fork. Can Trek at least put together a cargo bike to show people that they exist? A picture of Captain Armstrong in Nike sunglasses and a 10//2 shirt standing next to one would guarantee sales and check this out, its got a bottle opener in the frame! Dude! They could at least drop the gimmicks and make solid bikes at value prices. To me it seems like a good business model to provide entry level consumers with equipment that will make them want to use it. Why stop there, why not provide all levels (not just the over $2,000 level) with quality equipment? Until you do, Trek, you suck. Gpickle (leading a group ride to the Boo-Hoo Hotel in 5 minutes) |
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Post by the weiner posse on Nov 12, 2005 9:24:38 GMT -5
ah yes... i too know trek...moreso back in the day right when the suction began... i sold them from '97 to '99...so i was able to cover five model years('96-'00)... in this time...i got to see all of the lower end models slowly lose that american flag on the seat tube as trek began to have them built overseas... they began to abandon steel as aluminum started to become a cheaper material to manufacture frames... it wasn't any kind of aluminum to write home to mom about...as it was cheap and still weighed more than a nicer steel such as reynolds or tange...but people liked the idea of aluminum...since it's so nice and light and just look at the size of those tubes...! trek's marketing gurus slapped a buzzword like 'alpha' on some of their regular ol' six or seven series aluminum and the consumer just knew it _had_ to be special with a name like that... at least the cheaper cost of aluminum put a nail in the coffin of that horrible idea of oversized steel frames...a marketing idea that suckered the general public into buying a much heavier bike that looked 'cooler' since it didn't have those skinny little tubes that looked like they'd snap in two...  i got to see the acquisition of the following bicycle companies... bontrager... gary fisher... klein(after getting in trouble with the epa for dumping paint outside of gary klein's own factory in oregon...for shame)... lemond... am i forgetting any...? anyway...now you see a bunch of different manufactued frames with the same trek-owned bontrager components on them... there was a guy that came into the shop this summer that was sent by his friend to 'check out _every_ shop in town before you buy a bike'...i quickly picked up the vibe that he wanted to go buy a trek and be done with it...he informed me that he was only at the shop just to see what i had under his friend's advice...after impatiently waiting through my presentation of some of the bikes i had for sale...he asked me what i thought about trek...to his dismay...i had to tell him of my unfavourable opinion of them... i told him that one of the big reasons i dislike them is that they try and steer the industry in directions that _they_ think it should go since they are such a huge corporation(much like shimano-but that's another topic)... after a terse explanation to this gentlman...he informed me that he was 'a little wary of (my) understanding of the industry...' and then thanked me for my time and left... i found out that his wife owned a trek and he was on his way to the trek dealer in town so he could own one too... trek has the name...which they got from making nice bicycles...unfortunately they have used that reputation to slack off and slide through year after year of what i would imagine to be increasing sales of bicycles annually... i do like a lugged steel trek from back in the eighties...and i always had respect for the nine hundred series of their mountain bikes...before they killed them off in favour of going the aluminum route... it's a good thing that there are so many more bicycle manufacturers out there...perhaps it's only a matter of time before they are bought up by that four letter word... |
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Post by cootie on Nov 12, 2005 14:47:38 GMT -5
Oh, my golly, it's true that Trek has gone the way of the multinational corporation. As Donald Trump made common knowledge, you don't need a decent product as long as you have effective marketing. One of my personal favorites of Trek's suckitude is the Trek credit card. You heard me right folks! Ain't got the cash now? Extend yourself! It's only around 24% APR to get that bike NOW NOW NOW!! Wanna see the fine print? Here she is: onlineaccess.mycreditcard.cc/WebApps/trek?Action=Tac.jsp#Anybody else out there got an opinion on this? Is anybody gonna step up to defend poor Trek? Can we have some healthy debate, or are we just gonna lynch 'em? |
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Skinny
Junior Member
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Post by Skinny on Feb 6, 2006 17:07:36 GMT -5
I will reply, not to defend Trek, but to defend my own well being. Let me start by saying I'm a retro kinda guy, most of my life I've played my '68 Les Paul gold top deluxe in bars all over Iowa. I play with a retro sound, and love things popular when I was 2.
I also love my poprad, it got me back into biking now that I'm tired of playing music in bars and smelling like smoke. I love the steel, even more so due to bending my derailleur hanger up over my cassette in yesterdays race.
This year I won the raffle for the new Trek bike, I never wanted a Trek before but I'll be d**ned if I don't go gaga over this madone everytime I see it sitting there. While I can't argue against the Trek suck, I must excuse myself and my lack of will power to defend against the paint job of my new bike.
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brody
New Member
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Post by brody on Feb 6, 2006 17:22:44 GMT -5
Okay So, Trek sucks, but by all arguments seen here so does, Specialized, Giant, PAC Cycle, Jamis, Kona, KHS.... And yes little Weiner Posse, even Voodoo. I even saw a Serotta in a Trek only shop in St. Louis a couple months back(what’s that all about).
Seems to me that nearly all BIG bike companies out there drive their sales by marketing gimmicks and BS assumptions of uninformed purchasers. If there was one bike company out there that didn’t suck I would be able to buy my kid a single speed Mtn. bike for less than I can buy him a full suspension K-Mart bike(can’t be done). And it doesn’t stop at bikes it is just the American way, why do so many people buy Crest toothpaste, Kellogs Frosted Flakes, or KFC Chicken? Because they know the brand, and people associate with what they think they know.
The pure fact that some blanket label Trek as sucky tells me that no one, even those highly informed bike purchasers/sellers here are immune to brand imprinting.
So Yeah, Trek sucks, great, Am I going to buy one if the price is right? Sure why not. They aren’t inherently any more evil than any other multinational conglomerate. Now if I find out Trek is testing their products by rubbing them in the eye cuddly farm animals I will probably never look at another Trek again.
Trek produces bikes that are reasonably useable and mostly distributed by reputable bike dealers. Look at some crap distributed through Wal-Mart and K-Mart that are just downright dangerous, and cause people to never want to ride a bike again, there should be a law against that. The reputable bike dealer that works on what they sell and doesn’t let unsafe bikes leave the door is way more important to me than bike brand.
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themostlyreverend
Senior Member
if i COULD post an avatar, you'd be laughing now.
Posts: 39
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Post by themostlyreverend on Feb 6, 2006 22:07:09 GMT -5
folks, i've read the thread, and i think you're not paying attention to g's point: trek sucks because they're in it only for the money, to borrow from my man frank [catholic school girls was playing this morning when i got up!!]. they don't CARE about doing what's RIGHT for the world; they only care about what's MONEY for trek.
and THAT, my friends, SUCKS.
now RE-READ what gpick wrote. this isn't [just] about poopie bikes that are made overseas. i never liked the american flag on my old 2300pro anyway. it's about the upselling mentality ["oh, you don't want a triple? we have a double for discerning cyclists like YOU!"] that is built into their catalogs. and those stupid "townies"?!? they're like the idiotic SUVs driven by the folks they're designed to reach. stupid, over-priced, and useless.
like gpick said.
trek sucks because they're not doing what jack calls "charity work"--HELPING THE CYCLING COMMUNITY.
and THAT sucks. i've just rediscovered my 1990 parkpre steel road bike that i got while riding for ordinary. i STILL love that bike. lugged skinny steel tubes. grip shift. 8 speed. and STILL a great ride.
that DOESN'T suck.
people bi*ch about paying taxes. people say government interferes too much. people say they want judges who are judicial activists. but you can't get something for nothing. there's no free lunch. QUALITY COSTS. what's this all mean? it means think about what you do, what you buy, and when computing the "cost" of your next bike, think about the cost beyond what it costs to get it out the door and under your butt. think about what it cost to put it in the shop in the first place. where does your money go? who does it help? was it made with loving hands by some little bald kid in portland, or by a multi-million dollar robot-driven machine somewhere overseas?
and you know what? you should more than dream about having the a dream bike--you should HAVE a dream bike. talk to someone who has had a lugged bike with a chromed fork crown and snazzy drop-outs. ask them how cool it was to see the bike in its unpainted state, built to your particular size and specs. built by someone who is truly adding value to the world, not just to the bottom line.
and then ride the h**l out of it.
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Post by gpickle on Feb 26, 2006 7:58:32 GMT -5
In the interests of "fair and balanced" reporting as well as "devil's advocacy" I felt I should defend Trek(sucks). Here are a couple of projects they are involved in: www.worldbicyclerelief.org/and the next link does not seem to open as it is but you can paste it into your browser to read about biketown: www.bicycling.com/article/0,3253,s1-9281,00.html?category_id=363 I looked around the Trek website to find out some more information about their advocacy projects and found very little. From Trek(sucks) to Trek(bucks)? Stay tuned to this important issue! gpickle |
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Post by 1eftcoastgrave1 on Feb 26, 2006 22:02:08 GMT -5
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Post by gpickle on Mar 5, 2006 9:27:51 GMT -5
This morning I was checking out the happenings at velorution and I came across this link: wheelsofmercy.blogspot.com/It looks a bit early in the game to pass judgement on this project. Is it slick marketing or something more? For now it is nice to see Extracycle and Tom Ritchey involved, I never thought that they sucked. gpickle |
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Post by the weiner posse on Mar 13, 2006 11:00:10 GMT -5
more on kona... Kona Invites You to ‘Adopt an AfricaBike’ -There’s Now a Way to Help support the BikeTown AfricaBike project without traveling to Botswana to help us build bikes, through ‘Hank and Frank’s Adopt an AfricaBike’ program- KonaWorld -- Due to an overwhelming number of inquiries from consciences people who have heard about the AfricaBike project and asked, “What can we do to help?”, along with a great suggestion from the guys at one of Kona’s NorCal dealers that we allow people to, “Adopt an AfricaBike,” Kona has decided to do just that; for $100, you can adopt an AfricaBike. The idea was born when the team at Hank and Frank’s Bicycles in Lafayette, CA, asked us, “How much would it cost to adopt an AfricaBike, that is buy one and donate it to the cause?” We thought it was such a great idea, that’s exactly what we’re doing! So, here’s how you can assist health care workers treating HIV and AIDS patients in Botswana by adopting your very own AfricaBike through Hank and Frank’s Adopt an AfricaBike Fund: - For $100, you, your shop, your family…can adopt an AfricaBike. - Payment arrangements can be made through your helpful Kona sales rep. - Along with your check, you can include a small sticker from your favorite bike shop and we will paste it on to the bike. - After the adopted bike is built and tested, we will take a photo of the bike and email it to you upon our return. - We’ll keep a gallery of the bikes posted on this site as well as a listing of people and organizations that have adopted a bike. The money will go towards building more AfricaBikes for future projects. Checks should be made out to Kona, the memo should read AfricaBike Adoption. Here are the mailing addresses: More than 200 of the specially designed bicycles are scheduled for delivery to health-care workers in Botswana in April. The research, design, development and delivery of the Kona AfricaBikes is documented at www.konabiketown.com . About the Kona Bicycle Company: The Kona Bicycle Company designs, manufacturers and distributes more than 60 models of purpose-built, high-performance mountain, road and urban bicycles. Founded in 1987 and headquartered in Ferndale, Washington, USA, Kona bicycles are distributed worldwide in more than 60 countries through independent specialty bicycle dealers. Kona funds several professional road, mountain and cyclo-cross racing teams that include world cup champions, world champions and national champions. www.konaworld.com. XXX |
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Post by gpickle on Apr 9, 2006 19:25:46 GMT -5
Maybe this is not Trek's fault alone, after all Hincapie probably has a lot of say in what his special Paris Roubaix bike set up will be but still, this bears mention in this thread. 16:00 CEST 214km/45km to go Hincapie does an amazing move. His handlebars or stem or forks broke and he ended up in a ditch. He's out, for sure. Read more at: www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/apr06/roubaix06/?id=liveTurns out that frail little aluminum headtube snapped. Boonen was riding steel. Hmmmm..... Lots of tears in the Pabst tonight at the Trek factory I imagine! gpickle |
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Post by gpickle on Oct 1, 2006 7:48:43 GMT -5
Yesterday while riding with a friend who happens to ride bicycles professionaly for the Discovery Channel Cycling Team I had the opportunity to discuss my TrekSucks theories and hear what he had to say about it. He told me that the bicycle he was riding was the very same that he road in the Giro D'Italia this year. He also said that other than the very public fork failure poor George Hincapie suffered at Paris-Roubaix he was not aware of any other Discovery riders breaking their Madones this season. That actually and honestly makes me happy to hear because I figure those muscle men would be more likely to be breaking bikes than your average BIC rider and the whole point of my TrekSucks crusade is not to make fun or put anyone out of business, it is to try and steer the industry back to a point of rationality. As my pro chum remarked during our discussion, he would never buy a Madone or any other carbon bike, these are given to him and if one should have a problem he will be handed another easy as that. Steel is real, he said, and therefore repairable. I like him.
gpickle
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Post by grittystash on Oct 2, 2006 11:16:24 GMT -5
Yesterday while riding with a friend who happens to ride bicycles professionaly for the Discovery Channel Cycling Team I had the opportunity to discuss my TrekSucks theories and hear what he had to say about it. He told me that the bicycle he was riding was the very same that he road in the Giro D'Italia this year. He also said that other than the very public fork failure poor George Hincapie suffered at Paris-Roubaix he was not aware of any other Discovery riders breaking their Madones this season. That actually and honestly makes me happy to hear because I figure those muscle men would be more likely to be breaking bikes than your average BIC rider and the whole point of my TrekSucks crusade is not to make fun or put anyone out of business, it is to try and steer the industry back to a point of rationality. As my pro chum remarked during our discussion, he would never buy a Madone or any other carbon bike, these are given to him and if one should have a problem he will be handed another easy as that. Steel is real, he said, and therefore repairable. Then I attacked him on the next hill and he had no response, but complete admiration of my amazing cycling talent. gpickle here, I fixed your post for ya'. |
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Post by gpickle on Oct 2, 2006 21:59:08 GMT -5
Aww Gritty, yous gonna get me in a heap o trouble, friend!
g(iro d' italia? No)pickle
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Post by chesty on Oct 23, 2006 23:11:30 GMT -5
Hey guys.
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